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Talk:Riven/@comment-5160958-20140110223848/@comment-9008617-20140113185217
"Lots and lots of calculating and stuff again, and little time, so I'm only going to reply to the points that take one or two lines." There's definitely more than one or two lines in your replies... I'm just breaking down the numbers for you. It's worth looking at. Essentially, 4 items (BC, LW, MoM, Hydra) is enough to give Riven a 500 shield every 5.1 seconds just from the 10% CDR from BC and 5% from masteries and excluding runes and the last 2 items/boots. "BC vs LW + Bruta: Of course I'm not just leaving that Bruta there. When I have the other five items completed, I either buy a Youmuu's, a Black Cleaver, or I sell the thing and put another Bloodthirster in the slot." If you sell the bruta, you're losing 400g. LW is also usually a more of a late game buy when people have started to stack in excess of 100 armor. If you're diving the ADCs, they typically aren't built with that much armor (~120 with GA) and the extra health and 10% CDR (which translates to your shield/skills being up more) from BC is more useful. Again, the passive on the BC is to help your team and LW is more of a selfish passive. So unless all your AD-users have a LW, they don't receive any arpen. "MoM on Riven: BT, Hydra, LW, Boots, GA are, in my opinion, a must on Riven. So it's either a sixth item instead of the aforementioned just sold Brutalizer, or there's no space for it. Or is the 5 "core" (imo) what we disagree about?" Well it's a matter of opinion then. BT and Hydra seems excessive to me since, I believe, lifesteal only procs on AA's and on-hit abilities (i.e. not Riven's Q or W). BT is the cheapest item for AD but the Hydra passive stacks better with BC stacks. GA is situational at best. "And yes, everything Riven does applies BC stacks. But when you're done with Q + autoattack + W + hydra + R second cast on an AD carry (the moment you reach the full stacks and are at 75% of the effectiveness of LW), is that AD carry really still alive? Or the AP carry, if that's the one you focused?" Riven does a lot of splash damage both from her skills and from Hydra (if you buy it). Usually the enemy team isn't going to let you just reach their ADC or APC without a struggle. You're bound to at least hit someone else on the team with your splash which then applies 5%-25% armor reduction (depending on # of hits) that your entire team can benefit from. Most ADCs will have about 70 base armor at level 18 (i.e. Lucian has 69 armor at lvl 18). Guardian Angel grants 50 armor for a total of 120'ish armor. LW has 35% armor penetration which stacks multiplicatively with Devastating Strikes (6%). Therefore you get something like, 0.94 (0.65 * 120) = 73.4 armor remaining BC at max stacks gives: 0.94 (0.75 * 120) - 10 = 74.6 armor remaining And for giggles, LW and BC gives you: 0.94 (0.75 * 120) - 10 = 45 armor remaining The tradeoff is that LW gives you the immediate arpen but at the cost of health, CDR (which is a very good stat on Riven as mentioned numerous times), and LW doesn't help your team's damage. "I agree with you that Warmog's isn't good on Riven, but I meant single defensive items in general, be it on Riven, Kha'zix, Talon, Lucian, Quinn, Vayne or whoever I'm playing that wants to deal as much damage as possible. That is why I go for GA every game (if it isn't over before the 25 minute mark)." I don't follow what you're trying to say here. "However, your comparision of Spirit Visage with Guardian Angel is flawed, because of a very simple reason. The four second stasis. I have won a game where we didn't have an initiatior because of that stasis.How? By running in first, letting the enemies burn all cooldowns on me" It sounds like you were the initiator... "(what would you do when a 350 AD or whatever I had Riven would be running into your team?)," I don't know... depends who's on my team. It would seem like in a 1v5 that they would only require at most 1 or 2 hard CC's to kill you (i.e. a silence alone would be devestating against a Riven initiation). And then your team would be down 4v5 while you're reviving for 30% health and your GA passive starting its 5 minute CD... "proccing my GA, and then my team initiated, on an enemy team that had burned half or more of their cooldowns. Because they burned the rest of their cooldowns while I was in stasis, I was able to get out," lol... silly team, burning all their CDs like that. Btw, you're kind of agreeing that Riven is OP if she's so strong that the enemy team has to burn everything just to kill her... Cough. "activate my ult, and go in again and get something like a triple kill." You're doing that bragging thing again. Could've just left it as, "I revived and then helped my team win the teamfight after" Would've been cooler if you claimed it was a pentakill. Next time I guess? "That is simply a hundred times over impossible with Spirit Visage, and the reason I'll always prefer Guardian Angel." Like I said, Spirit Visage is so OP that Riot is nerfing it apparently. Spirit Visage gives you +15 magic resistance and 400 health to survive the burst, health regen that's almost as strong as Warmog's, bonus lifesteal since you like stacking BT and Hydra, and 20% CDR that shaves off so much time off her CDs so she can have that 500 health shield up every 3.6 seconds... But hey, if prefer to initiate for your team because the other team is a free-win, blow up, and then revive for 589 health every 5 minutes then to each their own.